I keep reading about coinlab being the reason why after so many years since MtGox went under I have still not received what I am owed. Can anyone tell me what the fuck is going on? Coinlab does not even seem to have any function other than this apparent legal claim they have against MtGox? What exactly is their legal claim based on? I am finding it hard to think of them as anything other than a bullshit con that is used as the "excuse" for me getting compensated for what I have invested in bitcoin at what I believed to be the largest crypto exchange at that time. What does coinlab as a company actually do other than having this apparent legal claim against MtGox?
Someone has just offered to buy my claim, which is approx. 140 BTC. They offered me 11 BTC and 11 BTC. Is that good value for money? I'm not really sure what I can hope for through liquidation, though I know the liquidator sold lots of the holding at the $10k mark.
As usual the documents distributed during the creditors meeting are available from the MtGox.com website. Meeting started at 13:30, Q&A at 14:02. Next creditors meeting will be held October 1st 2019 at 13:30. Apart from what is written on the report, the trustee mentioned that large claims in assessment could make it difficult for civil rehabilitation to continue moving forward, and also mentions that seeing how bitcoin price dropped it might be better to sell. He asked people in the room at the end who was for selling BTC (0% responded "for", ~20% responded "against") but mentioned he wouldn't be bound by this and would act in the interest of creditors with approval of the court.
Q1 from Andy Pag (MtGoxLegal.com) was about CoinLab and voting. The trustee confirmed CoinLab's filed for assessment. In assessment both the trustee and CoinLab will submit their opinion to the court which will rule on the claim. Trustee wants this to move quickly. CoinLab's voting rights were rejected by the trustee, however since they filed for assessment now the court has to decide how to proceed and how much voting rights they get. The claim being large the trustee will keep monitoring the situation as he sees this as a potential issue.
Q2 Regarding voting for plan. Method for voting hasn't been decided yet. Since there is an online system for creditors, the trustee believes it'd be nice to make full use of it and allow voting there, but first there is a need to discuss with the court to get approval for such a method.
Q2' (Andy also asked about using more user friendly English translation in emails). The trustee explains that since this is a procedure under Japanese law only Japanese is legally required, however he will think about providing better English translations.
Q3: Some more explanations on attached non-exchange creditors. Amounts are indeed grouped by currency and both CoinLab & Tibanne claims were fully rejected. CoinLab has been under assessment process while MtGox was bankrupt and the process has already been ongoing for some time, so assessment under civil rehabilitation will resume from there in order to save time.
Q4 was about email sent to offline creditors. Emails will be sent in the next few days to creditors at the contact address they provided. Creditors list can also be obtained from the court.
Q5 was about how civil rehabilitation will deal with "zombie claims", trustee says it isn't defined yet as there is no plan yet.
Q6 was about forks. The document mentions BTC forks will be taken into account, what about BCH forks? Trustee answers that any fork the trustee controls with value will be taken as part of the bankruptcy estate and distributed to creditors.
Q7 asked about other rehabilitation ideas such as reviving MtGox. Trustee confirms there is no plan to revive MtGox, only to distribute assets to creditors, as cash or crypto if bankruptcy plan allows it. Trustee explains that in case of crypto distribution because they cannot use the blockchain they need to go through an exchange. Creditors will have to create accounts, and will see their balance credited once distribution happens.
Q8 asked more details since the trustee has been stressing distribution in crypto would be difficult. Would you sell coins or distribute? Trustee answers he'll act in whatever way is the best for creditors with approval of the court.
Plz Vote: Mr. Kobayashi we the Mt.Gox Creditors demand you to take immediate actions.
Publish the total amount of JPY and BTCs that are being claimed or challenged in current pending court cases.
File a petition with the court to allow you to move this amount into a separate reserved account as a cover for future court decisions.
At the same time also file a petition with the court to allow you to move the rest of the fiat and btc to a creditor distribution account and start the distribution process ASAP.
Ensure fair (i.e. equal percentage of loss) payout calculations among ALL creditors - fiat, btc, big or small.
Repeat the above after the legal settlement of each impending case to ensure timely returns of the remaining fund (in the reserved account) back to creditors.
As a group of creditors deeply impacted by this bankruptcy case we've been funding the investigation and the settlement effort for years. At this junction we do not see any merit or in any party's interest for you to NOT take the above actions to move forward the process sooner than later. Thank you in advance for your sincere consideration and timely execution of our requests. Mt.Gox Creditors, Let's leave this post out here for a month to gather more feedback from our fellow goxxed members. I hope we can UNIFY our voices by the end of June if we could, as we really ought to consolidate our petition into ONE if there is any chance for us to make anything happen sooner. Sometimes in early July (perhaps 7/4?) We shall ALL send the SAME request to Mr. Kobayashi via all possible means (snail mail, email, fax or whatever we know) to get his attention and consideration of our collective petition. Meanwhile if you can help to find more ways to reach out to the trustee please share with us. “We are stronger together than we are alone.” ― Walter Payton
Bitcoin Value 202,185.36428254btc x $1884 = $380,917,226 Other Asset Value 1,681,125,559 JPY = $14,726,962 Total Asset Value $380,917,226 + $14,726,962 = $395,644,188 Total Accepted Claims Value 45,609,593,503 JPY = $399,548,249 JPY 100/399,548,249 x 395,644,188 = 99% Mtgox now holds value to cover 99% of claims. So, do you guys actually want your money back or what? Because now is the time to start shouting. Mtgox is no longer bankrupt and in theory from this moment onward we could get our money back. It requires that payments are made out in mostly btc and it requires that Mtgox comes out of bankruptcy. We need to work together to make this happen and we may not have much time to do this. We will need to hire a lawyer in Japan to speed things along. Maybe we can crowdfund this together. We need to have contact with the trustee to get him onboard, but we need to keep in mind that his paycheck for the next few years would have been coming out of this bankruptcy and he has an interest in making this go on as long as possible. Mark, you need to start providing with information on how we can move forward with this. You have more influence and knowledge of the situation than any of us here and you need to do right by us. I have been asking you to do this for a while now and you have been very dismissive of the fact that the price was increasing and that we would soon have a non-brankrupt mtgox. Well here we are. It's your time to shine. If anyone has any information or suggestions on how we can make this happen then please post in this thread. This includes the hedge funds that have been buying large claims. You guys have a chance at making over a 5 fold win in less than a year if you bring Mtgox out of bankrupcy. Let's do this!
Re: inquiries about MtGox disbursements and proposed revival
Here’s why we’re in this situation. The trustee forced the user-victims to give, without compensation, a free call option to the Gox shareholders to buy 200k BTC at $2500 at any time prior to the distribution. Thus, a perverse incentive to delay distributions was born. The result:
CoinLab/Vessenes demand a massive settlement. The argument goes: the lawsuit may be frivolous but if you don’t settle, you’re going to lose out even more on the rising price of bitcoin. Straight up legalized extortion, but nothing new – same tactics used by patent trolls.
The shareholders are the other obvious adversary here. For all we know, the shareholders are financing or otherwise incentivizing CoinLab to continue pressing the lawsuit and delaying distributions. Shareholders may be running their own delay tactics that we’re unaware of. Until we see 100% of the shareholders make binding commitments to allocate 100% of their ill-gotten gains to the user-victims, we can’t discount their involvement.
Essentially ANYBODY in the nexus of parties responsible for making distributions could become compromised by massive incentives to delay offered by Gox shareholders.
What can be done?(in theory)
Reject the commingling of user-victim assets and company assets from the outset. If a bank goes in to bankruptcy (in the US), the contents of the safe deposit boxes cannot be auctioned to pay off the bank’s credit card. The asset that the bank holds is the contract to service the safe deposit box, and that could be auctioned to another servicer, but not the contents of the box itself. It can be argued that missing box contents are the responsibility of the bank, but not that missing bank assets are the responsibility of the box renters. How did we get in to this situation with Gox?
Demand that the call option for Gox shareholders be canceled and instead be offered to user-victims.
Demand that a reassessment of the price of bitcoin be done at the time of distribution.
Demand no conversion of any assets and distribute pro rata all assets (USD, EUR, JPY, BTC, etc) as they are, according to the exchange rates established at the start of the bankruptcy proceedings.
Sue the MtGox/sharehoders for unjust enrichment/conversion and get a preemptive lien/garnishment against the distribution that might go to them.
With regard to the proposal to revive MtGox, I just don’t see the ROI for an investor to take this on. It’s a massive and extremely difficult undertaking with a highly improbable outcome. Why shouldn’t the investor just hodl and chill, or buy a fully functioning, profitable exchange without a massive brand problem? Why shouldn’t Kraken just dump $245m in to marketing instead? And, why would it be necessary if the shareholders would just commit to donating their gains to the victims? The trustee has already said that fiat payouts will be optionally payable to Kraken accounts, and that if bitcoin payouts are approved by the court, they will be payable only to Kraken accounts. If any of the Gox shareholders end up with an unexpected windfall that they wish to distribute to the user-victims, Kraken would happily facilitate. Kraken already has most of the accounts as a result of our facilitation of claims collection, the $1m worth of free trading each claimant received, and our providing support to victims and trustee over the last 4 years. People are not sitting on the sidelines waiting for a MtGox revival – they’ve been off trading elsewhere and you’d have a hard sell bringing them back. IMO, it's a pipe dream. I'm glad to see the formation of mtgoxlegal.com and hope that together the creditors can drive some progress toward the only morally acceptable outcome, which is that the user-victims receive 100% of whatever remains after bankruptcy fees.
Mt. Gox, called "Mount Gox" or simply "Gox", was the most widely used bitcoin currency exchange market from shortly after its inception in 2010 to its insolvency late 2013. The market was closed February 25, 2014 and has since filed for bankruptcy protection in Japan and the United States, after losing 640 thousand bitcoins.. A registrant on Mt. Gox had at least two sub-accounts: one for ... Mt. Gox, genannt "Mount Gox" oder einfach "Gox", war der am häufigsten verwendete Bitcoin-Devisenmarkt von kurz nach seiner Gründung im Jahr 2010 bis zu seiner Insolvenz Ende 2013.Der Markt wurde am 25. Februar 2014 geschlossen und hat Insolvenzschutz angemeldet in Japan und den Vereinigten Staaten nach dem Verlust von 640.000 Bitcoins. The Japanese court has largely dismissed a claim by Peter Vessenes‘ company Coinlab for $16 billion, awarding instead just about $4 million.. The MT Gox trustee said in an update at the creditors meeting held on Tuesday: “On August 30, 2019, the Court issued its decision on the petition for claim assessment filed by CoinLab, Inc., under which JPY 384,857,605 and delay damages thereon were ... Basically, if you had bitcoin in MtGox you’ve already lost 80%+ of your money, and now CoinLab is doing their best to finish the job. In the original post, WizSec summarized the content of two documents: CoinLab’s civil rehabilitation claim assessment petition (March 6, 2019) and the response of the trustee (April 12, 2019). CoinLab’s monetary claim is below and taken from the original ... MtGox creditors already have no love for Vessenes, who has steadfastly refused to drop or lower this claim, which is now almost two and a half times as large as the sum total of all approved claims combined, despite the fact that the remaining assets in MtGox are customer funds.Basically, if you had bitcoin in MtGox you've already lost 80%+ of your money, and now CoinLab is doing their best to ...
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